One only need read critiques of NTW by FV proponents to see how wrong it is to conflagrant the two positions.

See: http://dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=ArchivesByTopic&TopicID=33

however, i think Crouch may be on to something in regards to the MoA, especially after reading McLaren’s article. his article seemed to say that all versions (or contextualizations) of the Gospel are ok, insofar as they center on Jesus. however, he also says that there are many versions of Jesus, but doesn’t say which ones are acceptable or not. coming out of that, it seems that, much like the MoA, people are free to choose, or shop around the different stores, until they find the Jesus and gospel message that most suits them. if that’s not a MoA attitude, i don’t know what is.

Yeah, it is a good thing to read that. Methodists tend to be pretty big on putting faith into practice—well, when they’re big on doing anything other than sitting in the back pew!—so I’m not surprised that he said that. Crouch is probably one of those Methodists who, like me, feels that we don’t take the sacraments seriously or often enough.

secondly, i suppose it’s most likely that he is an Arminian, but i didn’t see any evidence for labeling him as such, other than that he is a Wesleyan. historically, there have been Calvinist Wesleyans and Methodists (don’t know about now), so it wouldn’t have been fair for me to infer that with no basis.

after i posted this blog post, i went back and read Andy’s rejoinder to the criticisms of the others in the book, something i did not read on purpose in my initial reading and found that he does sort of respond to my criticisms (as it turns out a couple of the other authors had the same criticisms and he says:

“without encountering Jesus and being filled with His Spirit, no religious practice is anything but empty. But what person with faith in Christ would not want to practice that faith in bodily ways? That is what the sacraments are for.”

so that was encouraging to me. it definitely seems that faith is of more importance to Andy than it appeared to be in his article, and that is a good thing!

And while your point about “Van Til presuppositionalist” is well taken, perhaps it would be more proper for Crouch to call himself a “Wesleyan Arminian” than a “Wesleyan Christian”, at least in relation to being a “Van Til presuppositionalist” because, to me, there’s the underlying assumption that a presuppositionalist is, indeed, a Christian. I’m left wondering if Crouch is a Methodist or a Wesleyan; my experience is that most people who self-identify as Wesleyans actually lean towards our Nazarene brothers, who believe things about earthly holiness I can’t hold to. [I see that Crouch went to BU Theology, which is wholly Methodist and supported by GBHEM.]